Stages of Development: Stage 2

Cole Abbott (00:00:00 -> 00:00:02)

So we're back on stages of development. Yes.

Mark Abbott (00:00:02 -> 00:00:03)

Part two, I think.

Cole Abbott (00:00:03 -> 00:00:14)

Part two, stage two. Stage two <laugh>. Yeah. We rehearsed that one. Uh, stage two. Yeah. Right. So now we're into the stage of, right. We're getting revenue, not revenue. We're getting

Mark Abbott (00:00:15 -> 00:00:16)

Product market

Cole Abbott (00:00:17 -> 00:00:19)

Fit. We've gone through product market fit Well,

Mark Abbott (00:00:19 -> 00:00:20)

Well, we're

Cole Abbott (00:00:20 -> 00:00:25)

Stage one, the product we can fit. Right? So stage two is raising capital.

Mark Abbott (00:00:26 -> 00:00:27)

Not necessarily. No.

Cole Abbott (00:00:27 -> 00:00:42)

I I was gonna do a list of things. Yes. But if you wanted to keep cutting me off, that's cool too. <laugh>, <laugh>, sorry. Raising capital, right. Money's coming in because we've sold either the idea of the thing, right? To bring in money, or we're actually selling the, starting to sell the product, right?

Mark Abbott (00:00:42 -> 00:00:42)

Yep.

Cole Abbott (00:00:43 -> 00:00:47)

So, right. If we're trying to figure out where we are, how do we know that we're in stage two? Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:00:47 -> 00:07:02)

So, um, it's really around, you know, the, the big idea behind the stages of development model is really more around the organizational structure than it is the business model. So I think that's an important part that we really haven't spent much time on, right? So, um, the big idea between stages is every single time you're adding a, you're not just adding a level of complexity, but you're adding, um, you're taking the business and making it capable of seeing further and further out into the future. And then driving, you know, confidently driving towards that future. So, stage one, right? It's all about product market fit. It's all about every, everybody's focused on stuff like week to week, month to month, you're not really spending a lot of time working where we're gonna be in six months, where we're gonna be in 12 months. You have perspectives on it, but that's not like where the founders, the senior leadership team's energy is going. It's just everybody's trying to prove that we have something worth putting additional resources into time ours, or money ours or someone else's. So, at stage two now, we've gotten to the point where we can really, we can bring in people to help us do sort of that day to day, week to week work, right? Whether it's, you know, let's just say it's a lawn care company, whether it's mowing lawns, right? Um, and we can also then, as a leader, right? We can focus on our marketing campaigns and figuring out, you know, the territories we want to go to, banging on doors and doing other things that are a little more long term oriented. Does that make sense? So we've moved our time span of the focus leadership focus, the founder's focus out to the three months, to 12 months timeframe. And in order to do that, we've hired people now who work for us. And, um, depending upon the nature of the business, right? You could, it, they could all just be engineers, or you could have a product person, an engineer, if it's lawn care company, you know, there's a person who is basically mowing the lawns or doing lawn care work. Um, and so you've got a couple layers of hierarchies of competency in, in stage two. Um, you're still running around improvising goals. You're still, you know, you're still, uh, you know, pivoting to some extent, whether it's maybe on your marketing position or the products pivoting. There's a lot of, i, I don't wanna say chaos, but there's a lot of flux in the, in, in, in the business model at this point. It's very fluid, it's very fluid, well put or well put, right? And, and, and in terms of, you know, how many people are at each stratum of the organization or layer of work, right? You know, you could have anywhere from a couple people sort of working on the leadership side of the business, maybe have someone who's overseeing marketing and maybe have someone who's overseeing operations. Um, and so you could have two or three layers of competency within the organization, but for all practical purposes, the really big thing is we're still, we're not worrying about a year from now, or two years from now, or five years from now, right? Um, so the structure is still, it's fluid, but it's being defined, right? So we've know enough about the, about the work we're doing. We know enough about the market that we can have people dedicated to marketing. Obviously, we understand we sh should be doing invoicing, if that's a, a, a company that's making revenue, right? We're probably gonna have that person if we're not making revenue yet, right? We don't need a, we don't, we don't, we still have, still have to have someone managing the money side of things, managing the money, and, and, and making sure payroll is being met and things like that. Um, so, so you still have someone who's doing accounting work and, and, and managing cash, right? Um, and then, you know, you may be wearing multiple hats. You may be, um, overseeing, you know, marketing, uh, and engineering as an example, and product, right? And so you're wearing all these different hats that are basically level two hats. Um, and everybody else is just, is just working on, um, on giving, on getting, you know, work done. Um, and then, you know, the founder, the core centers of excellence is still gonna be predominantly the founder's areas of expertise, right? So, you know, if, if you're an engineer, right? It's gonna be an engineer centric organization at that particular point. If you're a product person, it's gonna be a product centric, uh, person at that, um, at that moment, if you go back to the landscaping company, right? You're still gonna be the guy who, you know, goes out and makes sure that, you know, everything's been done well, um, customers are happy, et cetera. So, um, as I said earlier, in terms of layers, two to three layers of complexity or competency, um, obviously the founder or the co-founders are all still critical. The business can't be sold at that particular point in time. And, um, and, and, and it's not a business that you know most, for the most part, it's not something you can go sell, and it's not probably at this point in time. Um, something that you can raise a lot of capital for, it would be sort of a series, a seed stage business, maybe, maybe. Um, and if it's a manufacturing or distribution, uh, you know, more traditional company, it's probably, you know, not gonna, it's not gonna be easy to raise money, maybe friends and family. So, so angel seed stage kind of a thing. Um, and the goal here is now, uh, to sustain work that makes you feel like, um, you've got something so sustained. If you, if it's a revenue generating company, it's a sustained customers and sustained cash flow. Um, you know, if you're proving out an idea and yet to bring on revenues, it's to sustain the development of that product to such a, in such a way that you remain confident that someone's gonna ultimately wanna pay for that product and or service. Does that make sense?

Cole Abbott (00:07:02 -> 00:07:04)

That does make sense. Okay. Cool. That's a good summary.

Mark Abbott (00:07:05 -> 00:07:07)

Thank you. Of things, of things, yes. Yeah.

Cole Abbott (00:07:07 -> 00:07:10)

So if moving from stage one to stage two mm-hmm, <affirmative>,

Mark Abbott (00:07:11 -> 00:07:11)

What, what,

Cole Abbott (00:07:11 -> 00:07:16)

What things are gonna change? What dynamics are gonna change? What challenges are you gonna face?

Mark Abbott (00:07:17 -> 00:09:05)

Yeah. I, well, well, people, there's more people. Um, you're starting to divide and conquer. So you got marketing people, or product people, or engineering people. Um, so you just got, you know, uh, you're beginning to have that, that communication complexity. Um, maybe you have five people, maybe you have 10 people, right? But now you gotta make sure, um, you know, everybody's communicating reasonably well. So you probably are moving to actually having formal meetings as an example, right? Maybe there's a weekly meeting, maybe there's daily huddles. Um, but you're just, you, you, you're literally starting to bring structure into, into the, into the business. Uh, you could indeed even start having 90 day, you know, you could start having 90 day goals, probably not, right? You probably don't hit that until stage three, but at least at that point, you're aligning around and you're moving from everything being implicit and just everybody's trying to do everything to getting a little more structure. Structure in terms, as I said, in terms of who's accountable for things, who's responsible for things, structure in terms of how you communicate structure, and how you're meeting structure in terms of how you're gonna organize information. Like back to, there's five levels of business operating systems at this point in time, you may start to feel the pressure to move to an intentional operating system. That doesn't mean that you're going out and, and, and, and, you know, getting a fully blown operating system like 90 Os or EOS or, or, or scaling up or whatever it is. You, you know, you do. Um, but it means, Hey guys, let's all use Google, or let's all use teams, right? So you're starting to be intentional about how you organize your information.

Cole Abbott (00:09:06 -> 00:09:13)

So if we're looking at the nine core competencies, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, which of those, which are sort of essential in stage two, and which are you starting to get into in,

Mark Abbott (00:09:13 -> 00:12:08)

In, well, you know, I believe you should start working on the vision thing in stage one, right? That should be part of it. So hopefully some of the vision stuff is getting clearer and clearer in stage, in, in stage two, right? Maybe we're, we're getting clearer on what our product is. Maybe we're getting clearer on what our ICP is. Maybe we're getting clearer on what our compelling value proposition is, right? <laugh>. Um, and, uh, and I would like to believe that we're getting a little bit clearer on, on, in terms of our core values, right? We're starting to hire people. So let's, you know, and, and, and, and so let's get, let's, let's start thinking about that a little bit. Because ultimately, you know, no one wants to, the, if you hire someone who doesn't work out, it's not good for you or for them, right? So, let's not, right? Let's not go hire people who just aren't gonna be great cultural fits. So I would start focusing on that stuff personally. Like I said, I would love to have people thinking about their core values, even in stage one, stage two, you're starting to use them and you're testing the language, right? Just like, you know, we went from tribe to G tribe, right? So you're testing the language, you're seeing, okay, so what's missing? What am I not really talking about when I'm talking with people about what our culture's all about? Um, so, so that's the vision stuff. You know, structure wise, I think you, you're starting to, you don't have to necessarily document it, but there's no reason not to if you have some, if you, if you can, you know, so who's accountable for what? Do a little bit of structuring using, you know, an org chart, right? Um, so that's another, another core competency. I would like you back to, you know, um, meetings we've talked about that I, I think you'd need, need to start having some more formal meetings. You know, um, informal meetings tend to end up with people getting frustrated because they seem to, like, they wander, they meander people, like, why the hell are we doing this? Right? They're not structured in a way where we're going in crisp, clear agenda. We're focused really on problem solving or moving the, you know, moving the, the boat forward. And so, um, I believe you'll start to feel pressure to start working on that meeting's competency, um, as an example. Um, you know, back to enterprise value and, and exit, you know, yeah. You're not worrying about secession planning and all that, but you should start getting a sense for how the, the economic model, the business model of the company, right? Starting to have a sense for ultimately where this will go. Maybe financial modeling projections. What are the implications? What, what are the next hires? So, so that's a thing that I think you'll, you'll start to work on in stage two. Um, is there particular core competency you think we should talk about besides those?

Cole Abbott (00:12:08 -> 00:12:10)

No, I, I think like structures,

Mark Abbott (00:12:10 -> 00:12:19)

Processes, I've said earlier, I don't think you need to be worrying about process at all at this moment in time. I mean, you can talk about it, but don't overinvest in documenting processes,

Cole Abbott (00:12:19 -> 00:12:26)

There needs to be people that outline their own processes. Yeah. 'cause they feel the need to do that. Yeah. And that's what's gonna be happening. It's not gonna be a, a hiring

Mark Abbott (00:12:26 -> 00:12:30)

Process as an example. I think that would be a good one to actually, you know,

Cole Abbott (00:12:30 -> 00:12:46)

A nice mixing document, right. Crossovers between people and process on that. Yeah. 'cause you right, you are figuring out what kind of culture you're forming. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you might have a good idea about that. Yeah. But then, right. With anything, it's gonna evolve over time because you're actually figuring things out through experience. Yep. So,

Mark Abbott (00:12:47 -> 00:12:47)

Yeah,

Cole Abbott (00:12:49 -> 00:13:15)

I think, I think it's interesting to look through the lens of the core competencies when going through the stages. Yeah. Right. Figure out what to do, where like the vision thing is. Right. And we will eventually have another framework around this, but the vision, like what parts of it to work on when Yeah. Right. Because some things is gonna be more concrete, something's gonna be more fluid. Yeah. Or like your unique value proposition, your icp Right. Early stages, that's gonna be Yeah. Evolving. Yeah. And shifting a lot.

Mark Abbott (00:13:15 -> 00:14:05)

Yeah. You know, it's like, it's like, do you, you know, do you spend much money on your three year picture and your one year goals at this particular moment in time? Probably not. Right? Um, you might, if you're, if you're out there fundraising, you, you're gonna have to do that to some extent. So once again, it really depends. Like, there's no, there's, there's no single right answer for each of the nine core competencies in terms of when you should really be leaning into to mastering it. But I do think that vision is sooner rather than later. Getting a little bit lined on the people sooner rather than later. Incorporating meetings sooner rather than later. Getting to work on, on the org chart and structure sooner rather than later. Um, data at this moment in time, you know, it's really gonna depend, right?

Cole Abbott (00:14:06 -> 00:14:07)

Depends what you're doing.

Mark Abbott (00:14:07 -> 00:14:18)

Depends on what you're doing. Depends on your business model. Right. Um, but probably not super high priority for, for, for most people, you're gonna have an intuitive sense for how things are going. Yeah.

Cole Abbott (00:14:18 -> 00:14:37)

Right. It's lawn care versus open AI thing, right? Yeah. It's like that big difference on the data side of things. Yeah. But also if you're going to, right. If you think you're gonna get to stage five without having a vision done, good luck with that. Yeah. So, right. There's a, a range of things, but it's Right. It's not black and white. It's not Yeah. Just

Mark Abbott (00:14:37 -> 00:14:38)

Pure,

Cole Abbott (00:14:38 -> 00:14:40)

Purely explicit on that. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:14:41 -> 00:14:52)

Trying to think. Is there, we should have like, the nine core competencies in front of us. 'cause I tend to, every now and then even space on getting all nine in my head at the same time. But can't think of something else.

Cole Abbott (00:14:53 -> 00:15:33)

I think that's, we count through 'em, but yeah. I don't think, I think we got the gist of it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. If we wanna do a, when we do the online guides, it'll be on the founder's framework website. Yes. We can put all the, the nine core competencies and put a part of that with each stage. Yep. So it's gonna be a vocal note to do that. <laugh>, <laugh>, make sure we don't forget that part. Yep. Um, yeah. So, right. We're going in stage. So then now we're into stage two. And when, so I guess I'll preface the question without a question. When you comes to coaching, what are the earlier stages that you find yourself getting into a coaching role for an organization?

Mark Abbott (00:15:34 -> 00:18:15)

It, it really depends on like how clear everything is, right? So, you know, I have a client that, um, I started coaching in 2020 that literally had a vision and a plan, no revenue, no operations, right? And, uh, but they were very clear on what they were gonna do, right? They, they, they knew, they, they knew, obviously they knew what they were selling. They knew who they were gonna just be selling it to. They had raised capital to go out and buy, uh, the, the equipment they needed to be in the business they were in, um, they were going into. And so they were really clear on, you know, sort of the core or business in terms of customers and value proposition. Even, even very clear on their purpose, passion, just cause, I mean, they really were like, this is who we are, this is where we're going, got people to in invest in them. Right? So in theory, they were stage one and I was coaching them today, there are over 120 million in revenue. You know, very, very strong operation margins. They're running 24 7. I mean, it's a, you know, a really, really well run company. Of course, they don't think it's as well run as I think they, it is, it's like all of us, right? Um, but, um, you know, that's a great example of where, um, a coach at that moment in time, they thought it was, you know, made a heck of a lot of sense. And, um, you know, and being as objective as I possibly can about it, I think I was really helpful for them because, um, uh, I enabled them to take a relatively well-defined business plan and then structure it, um, and present it so that they could go out and attract and retain really talented people. Uh, so that they did not have a lot of mishires. So that they were pretty good at figuring out, okay, here's the first step, here's the second step, here's the third step from a structural perspective, from a hiring perspective, um, from a planning perspective. And, uh, you know, they, before we ever had the dollar revenue, we had a fully blown out, you know, um, three year plan, one year goals, you know, 90 day rocks, um, capital raised. So that's a, you know, an example of where I think the coaching was very helpful for them.

Cole Abbott (00:18:16 -> 00:18:28)

So Right. Having gone through that journey from stage one, what do you think the key milestones or the key achievements were from getting through stage two? Right. Stage one to stage three, basically?

Mark Abbott (00:18:28 -> 00:19:35)

Yeah. So, so for them, you know, um, obviously getting the plant up and running, getting the sales in, uh, getting, um, you know, all the ma all the, you know, all the materials they needed to go out and start bringing customers in, right. The sales presentation decks, the, this is who we are, this is how we're, how we're doing things, you know. Um, I even got them probably within the first or second quarter of operations. We had a who we are, you know, so like our on, on on 90 or about 90 guide, we, we got one of those. So just for going out and recruiting people, they had a really solid tool. This is who we are and this is where we're going. Um, so, you know, I think that, uh, you know, for them, stage two was, was pretty darn fast. Um, and it was really, you know, sort of all about getting ready to start hiring a lot of people,

Cole Abbott (00:19:36 -> 00:19:48)

And we kind of alluded to this in the last episode. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but having a lot of prior business experience. Yeah. Right. That sets you up to move through those earlier stages

Mark Abbott (00:19:48 -> 00:19:49)

Very swiftly. Very

Cole Abbott (00:19:49 -> 00:20:03)

Swiftly. Yeah. Right. Because you, you know what to expect in each one. Yeah. Right. Just following the playbook. Yeah. It's like when you, uh, I guess, right, you're playing a video game and you're redoing it and you already ran it through the ear earlier levels. Yeah. And it's like, it's different, but you kind of know what to expect. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:20:03 -> 00:20:43)

Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, you know, and you, so it's just like, you know, if you've been around in the business world for a while, you, you learn just as much from your bad bosses as your good bosses. You may even learn more from your bad bosses. 'cause you're like, I don't wanna be that guy or gal. Right. Um, I don't wanna make that mistake. And so, yeah. I mean, this is their third company, right? So Yeah. They were right. Just, I mean, you know, in hindsight it's just like, wow. Yeah.

Cole Abbott (00:20:43 -> 00:20:49)

Super impressive third company, meaning like, company not third time trying to do something. Right? Right. There's a difference there, <laugh>. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:20:49 -> 00:20:55)

Yeah, yeah. Not their third, not their third time failing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Or they literally

Cole Abbott (00:20:55 -> 00:20:56)

Third attempt,

Mark Abbott (00:20:56 -> 00:20:57)

Well, they no

Cole Abbott (00:20:57 -> 00:21:02)

Say not their third attempt. Right. Not their third, third time failing. That's, that's not right. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:21:02 -> 00:21:19)

Yeah. So they, they, so the founder had, had, had actually, um, uh, I, I could get this wrong. I, I know he built one company and sold it, may have built one company and sold it, and then done something else with the second company. But it was definitely his third or so company.

Cole Abbott (00:21:19 -> 00:21:26)

The third, this will, is the third success, basically, right. Where it's like a successful exit. For sure. For

Mark Abbott (00:21:26 -> 00:21:31)

Sure. This will be at least his second, if not his third, third successful

Cole Abbott (00:21:31 -> 00:21:36)

Exit. So you've gone through it, right? Some wins under your belt kind of thing. Yes. So, and, and

Mark Abbott (00:21:36 -> 00:21:37)

All that experience.

Cole Abbott (00:21:37 -> 00:22:04)

Yeah. And that's huge, right. But I'm sure there's also a lot of failures in there that you learn from. So you're someone out there, right. Stage two struggling. Yeah. Or, or feeling a little bit of a struggle at the moment. What would you say to that person, right? About, okay, you're in this moment right now, but regarding the future, regarding moment you're in making most of that, and then Right. How that plays out in the future. Yeah. I think commercial

Mark Abbott (00:22:04 -> 00:22:47)

Confidence is hor is huge, obviously, right? So, you know, when you're in stage two, if you know, it's all a confidence game, right? You, you, what you want to be doing is progressing your confidence. And you're, and you, and, and by that I mean, you're becoming more and more confident that this makes sense, right? I can attract and retain people, I can attract and retain customers. I can attract and retain ideal, ideal stakeholders. And so it's all about that sort of having that level of progress that gives you confidence that you can take that next step. You should take that next step and do it with, with, with confidence. And so, you know, if you're struggling around confidence, it's, is it, you know, what is it, right? Is it

Cole Abbott (00:22:48 -> 00:22:49)

Product

Mark Abbott (00:22:49 -> 00:23:04)

Market fit? Is it my business model in terms of actually be able to make money and, and, and, and attract capital? Is it my ability to go out and get customers? Where am I lacking confidence at this moment in time? Right? And where

Cole Abbott (00:23:04 -> 00:23:06)

Are you lacking the evidence to have that confidence?

Mark Abbott (00:23:06 -> 00:23:07)

Exactly. Well put.

Cole Abbott (00:23:08 -> 00:23:18)

So, right. If we're doing that internal check of am I just, am I like not confident because personality thing, right? Right. I just have confidence in myself, right? Wherever that comes from,

Mark Abbott (00:23:18 -> 00:23:19)

I confidence in my team.

Cole Abbott (00:23:19 -> 00:23:50)

Right? And, and those how for someone trying to take a step back and assess objectively if they have that evidence Yeah. Right. To, to move on to the next step, right. And to push forward, right? Or right. Dig deeper. Yeah. Yeah. If you're bootstrapping it, for example, yeah. It's like, all right, do I invest, do I, you know, where do I put all my chips in? Right? Right. What are those, KPIs isn't the right word, right? Right. But what are those things? What are those pieces of evidence that you need, generally speaking Yeah. To have that confidence to move forward.

Mark Abbott (00:23:50 -> 00:26:09)

Yeah. So, so you, it, it could be confidence in just that people want to buy what you're selling at a reasonable price. Right? It could be that, it could be, I'm lacking confidence that I have the right people around me to be able to consistently produce the product and get it into the marketplace. It could be I'm lacking confidence in my ability to position the product in the marketplace, right? To, to sell or to market it. Right? Um, so, you know, it, it could be that I'm lacking confidence that, um, uh, I can sustain this financially or emotionally or physically, right? So I think you gotta stand back and look at like, the nine core competencies. And in particular, as I, I'll always go back to if, if you, if you don't have confidence in your vision and the basic economic and the business model, right? Then what is it? Right? Is it you don't have the ICPs, you don't have the positioning, right? If you, you don't know how to produce it, um, in an economical manner that ultimately will, will, will, will, will, will create enterprise value, um, is it that you just lack, you know, you lack the yin to your yang, right? In terms of the team that's around you, right? You haven't gotten it to the place where, um, you know, where you have the right leadership team, the right, you know, a lot of times it's just that other person or a couple other people who make up for the things that you're not great at. So really understanding through the lens of, you know, what we teach, what, where is it that I'm weak, right? Average players want to be left alone. Good players want to coach, great players want to know the truth. What, what is it that I'm not great at? And can I go out and get that? And what do I need to do out and get that? Do I need to be able to tell my story better? Right? Do I need to be able to prove product market fit? What do I need in order to get that? So I, I would look at the things that are essential to build a great company at this particular stage in time and say, Hey, you know, where am I insecure? Yeah. If I'm struggling.

Cole Abbott (00:26:09 -> 00:26:11)

And you wanna know the truth, right? You

Mark Abbott (00:26:11 -> 00:26:25)

Wanna know the truth. And, and, and, and, and it could be that you just need to talk to someone and say, Hey, you know, like a, like a coach and say, Hey, this is where I am, this is what I'm struggling with. Can you give me an objective perspective upon about the moment I'm in?

Cole Abbott (00:26:25 -> 00:26:47)

And would you, how useful of a corrective do you think the coach serves in that position? Right? So you have people on either side where you're really hard on yourself, and it's like, you're, you're doing really fine, or you're like, I wanna just go, I want to get after it. Yeah. Right. On that probably the younger crowd. Yeah. Right? Where, and, and you're like, no, no, we gotta slow down, down. We gotta make sure that we're, our structure, our vision, and everything is sound before we advance. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:26:47 -> 00:28:29)

It depends on the, you know, there, there are coaches and there are coaches. Let, let's be honest about it all right? And so, you know, if, if you can go find someone who's been where you are, right? And has a general understanding for, you know, what it takes to get from stage two to stage three, right? Just a general understanding and can ask honest questions and, and, you know, and, and you're willing to honestly answer them, right? Um, then I think that's a, and I, and there are lots of us, I'll use that term, who we wanna help people, right? So if you're a bit stuck at this moment in time, go find someone maybe who's, who's a coach, or go find someone who's done what you're doing, um, or, you know, network your way into one of those people and just say, Hey, look, this is where we are. I'm a bit stuck. Can you help me? Sort of, you know, you can't read the label from inside the jar. Can you help me understand where I am? And, um, and it could be, you know, the issue could be, you know, it could, it could be that you got, you know, you, you just need people that you don't have right now. 'cause this is what you're great at and this is what you're not great at. Or it could be that, you know, I don't know if this is such a good idea, right? Because it's a small market and you're up against a bunch of people who are really, really strong and you don't have a differentiator, right? You don't have a point of view that makes your, makes you stand out enough to go get a track. So you're, someone's gonna have to help you understand Right. A little bit better. 'cause you're, you're stuck for a reason. Yeah. You don't see it. And so, um, I'm not

Cole Abbott (00:28:29 -> 00:28:31)

Gonna think your way out of a thinking problem.

Mark Abbott (00:28:32 -> 00:28:54)

No. It's, it is just like, you know, as someone who's <laugh> done this too often, you know, you're sitting there at three in the morning and you're thinking about stuff that you're not gonna solve. All you're doing is ruminating over stuff that's gonna be there tomorrow. And you're not developing any thoughts. You're just, you know, you're just sitting there thinking about things that you can't change. Yeah.

Cole Abbott (00:28:54 -> 00:29:09)

If you get someone in that can tell you how to act and what to do. Yeah. Or you can act your way outta a thinking problem. Right. And then Right. Then you can get yourself outta that, that state. Right. That's stuck. Yeah. All right. So, uh, as with the, do you have anything else you want to add?

Mark Abbott (00:29:09 -> 00:30:03)

No, just other than I think, you know, look, starting building, running and scaling a company is really hard. They're, it, it, it's impossible not to experience the ups and downs. Right. Um, and there are a lot of people out there that want to help people that are trying to do good work and have a decent idea. If you're not trying to do good work and you don't have a decent idea, I, I'm not a magician, I can't help you. Right. But if you have a decent idea, right? And you're trying to do good work and, and, and, and, and you have some of the important competencies that are necessary in order to turn that idea into reality, there's, there's help out there. So, you know, take advantage of that. Don't be shy. Good average players wanna left alone. Good players want to coach. Great players wanna know the truth. So get someone to help you see what's going on. Yep.

Cole Abbott (00:30:04 -> 00:30:12)

All right. And we will link to the guide Yes. Brief. Yep. Both, all of that stuff. Yep. And the description below.

Mark Abbott (00:30:12 -> 00:30:14)

Exactly. All right. Thank you. Thank you.